Come quando la nebbia si dissipa,
lo sguardo a poco a poco raffigura
ciò che cela 'l vapor che l'aere stipa...
Dante, Inferno XXXI
Beth Ghostraven: Hi Ubit!
Luna Lunaria: Hiya Ubit :-)
Ubit Umarov: nice regions stress your arrival :) You bring own chairs.. good idea. i was about to rez a few boxes.. no need
Lux Tergeste: Thank you Thirza for the handy chairs :)
Ubit Umarov: click on things lol. I'm sorry not much to see on this region, most things are here to test this or that issue
lifted pixel: i will click everything
Beth Ghostraven: that's ok, Ubit, we came to talk with you - well, listen, mostly
Mal Burns: blooming heck - that's a lot of cats in yr home there
Ubit Umarov: well in RL i only have 2
Beth.Ghostraven: Mal, you *are* a cat, aren't you?
Mal.Burns: in SL yes, not found one here yet
Beth.Ghostraven smiles
Thirza Ember: he is the coolest cat in town
Ubit Umarov: well the land is also clean
Thirza Ember: Ubit how did you end up doing Dev work for Opensim
Ubit Umarov: well i like to break things ;)
Lux Tergeste: hehehee
Thirza Ember: nooooo.... surely not...we had not noticed
lifted pixel: did you spend any time in SL before moving to opensim?
Ubit Umarov: yes like 2 years or so. Then, I guess around 2010 ?? I seen that ODE things has issues, and started changing it. I made a big patch for opensim changing physics.., was refused by justin LOL
lifted pixel: was that with the interlinking chains demo i saw while back?
Beth Ghostraven: now you're still here and Justin's not, right?
Ubit Umarov: i would refused it also"" ) ... then i joined Aurora project and remade it
lifted pixel: idk the names of the engines, bulletsim? obode? havok?
Luna Lunaria: always like ubode
whirli placebo: what did your new physics do?
Ubit Umarov: mostly try to do things a bit better - more compatible with the "reference". Currently it has the full set of features SL has. Well not all good ;) For example does suport convex mode on all prims. That is a projectors test, there was a issue report a few weeks ago.
lifted pixel: is there an easy way to explain the difference between the physics? i've switched between a few different ones and don't notice a big difference other than you can't jump in some.
Ubit Umarov: this is one difference. This prim is set as convex, so the hole is removed to make it a bit lighter for physics, see ?
lifted pixel: okay so if you don't need to physically be able to go thru it
Ubit Umarov: a feature SL had always.. we didn't. Another thing, is the physics sits, I did set it back as PRIM; so hole is back, so now i can sit on its walls
lifted pixel: OH okay cool. It's a per prim settings, very good
Kashi Takeshi: Nice
Ubit Umarov: any of you can sit on same prim, using the physics
lifted pixel: i'm already sat on this nice chair with my hover height adjusted so i'mma stay here lol
Ubit Umarov: note it can also sit you on strange places... physics engine does look on the mesh it sees.. but on normal prims, usually safe
Thirza Ember: this is the Safari. We do Strange
lifted pixel: that's a question... is there some 'math' involved with sitting on a prim with no sit target?
Ubit Umarov: well, some. Physics does a search on the mesh to find the best spot according to a few rules
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| Far too late, I discovered this was not the queue for the bathroom. |
lifted pixel: i'm curious how it decides where to put ppl when more than one person is sitting on the same prim but that's more a question for an irc channel or something lol
Ubit Umarov: well as simple as possible do it does it in our life time
whirli placebo: ubit, was it goal to make opensim more compatible to sl, or... to just create a richer more efficient environment than one that was here?
Ubit Umarov: well, this where relevant SL features we had to have, as you know on own features we do have a big limitation.
Lux Tergeste: Well it worked, because a lot of people I originally met in SL are now here as well
Luna Lunaria: I was in SL a long time before I finally committed to opensim
lifted pixel: im a big fan of libopenmetaverse so bring on more things that can work with this data
Ubit Umarov: We still have no viewer, and in fact 90% of features are defined on viewers. With exception of physics and scripts, a region is mostly like a web server, giving viewers contents they ask for
Jupiter Rowland: It would certainly be a big step for OpenSim if it had its own viewer that doesn't have to keep any compatibility with SL.
whirli placebo: yes
lifted pixel: does the firestorm opensim viewer miss out on stuff? is there a better viewer suggested for opensim-ing?
Jupiter Rowland: Firestorm is big and bulky, but it's fully-featured.
Lux Tergeste: I don't think I would like having to use completely different viewers for SL and OS. What am I missing?
Beth Ghostraven: Lux, I agree, I like the familiarity of using Firestorm for both
Ubit Umarov: one day we will be forced to have one, but so far, thanks to a few devs like Beq from firestorm, Rye mutt for alch, etc.. we are alive :) ( i just did mention the ones i spoke to in last 2 weeks... a few more.. of course )
Nara Nook: Is that likely?
Ubit Umarov: it will happen
lifted pixel: would it be possible to integrate 'fedeverse' type stuff for messaging? i'm just saying buzz words, i don't know much about client/server code
Ubit Umarov: SL is a closed comercial project, everything is developed at same time and integrated
Jupiter Rowland: Integration between the Fediverse and OpenSim would be interesting, quite a few people seem to use both, myself included.
Ubit Umarov: SL will add features for their business model..
Luna Lunaria: At some point do you see Opensim diverging significantly from SL?
lifted pixel: SL will eventually die if they don't change some things. I think that 'diverge' may happen soon if they are smart.
Ubit Umarov: it already diverges a lot
Thirza Ember: our 'business model' needs to be the hypergrid. Moving between grids. Anyone agree with me on that?
Ubit Umarov: you are a example of that :) i mean HG
Kelso Uxlay: I do
Luna Lunaria: raises her hand in support of Thirza
Kashi.Takeshi: I agree... HG connects all and forms the Metaverse..
Mal Burns: yes Thirza
lifted pixel: yes, moving between worlds is definitely the most important part of opensim hypergrid
Thirza Ember: HG is EVERYTHING - blood and bones - of opensim
Luna Lunaria: yep
lifted pixel: anyone can run a server for free, connect it to a grid, and hop around with their friends.
Kashi Takeshi: That makes OpenSim awesome
whirli placebo: a new user would intuitively think that moving between grids would be an easy, uncomplicated thing....and would only grow more and more disenchanted if easy transport between grids was not possible....yes i enthusiastically agree with thirza
Ubit Umarov: sl actually did that also with IBM and think opensim, before opensim HG, but intergrids teleports does not fit their business model
Kashi Takeshi: I remember the IBM test with SL ..connecting to OpenSim. The first HG jump in history
Jupiter Rowland: What all those start-ups are fantasising about, interconnection in the Metaverse, is something we already have.
Nara Nook: Wasn't there a project to merge Opensim with something that links to other metaverse type projects?
Mal Burns: and HG enables messaging here so suspect UI cant help much on that, am i right Ubit?
Luna Lunaria: wasn't the hypergrid protocol an SL creation?
Ubit Umarov: no they did similar... other protocol
Mal Burns: Hypergrid is Crista Lopes creation
Ubit Umarov: yes some opensim ppl were on that also, but Diva made HG different. Well there are a few issues... major again.. viewers... even today they do not do HG well. Diva made HG as a hack, fooling viewers
Thirza Ember: We can jump between grids. What is lacking is smooth communication - like offline Ims and being able to pass LMs properly (this recently broke). It's also a problem that we cannot see friends online when they are on another grid - this makes life hard when someone has crashed and is trying to return to a Safari destination - people get very frustrated by that.
lifted pixel: i think if you understand what's going on with the addresses, it's not too hard, but at that point where SL and OS really separate maybe it can get a rework
Ubit Umarov: the viewer had no idea there was a grid change etc. Of course that is a big fail. There are several things the viewer needs to handle on a HG tp
Nara Nook: That must be why it says the wrong grid when you hop to a new grid
lifted pixel: i'm sure there are a handful of things that could be done, but i know that also takes $$$ or time if no money
Ubit Umarov: in time this and that viewer team did improve this and that but we are still on it :)
Luna Lunaria: a work in progress on a complex issue
Thirza Ember: well that is a wonderful positive note
Jupiter Rowland: Maybe you should infiltrate the viewer dev teams, heh...
Ubit Umarov: a few months ago i made opensim send more detailed grid information on arrival to any region so a viewer can actually see it changed grid, and adapt believe or not.. that is recent and mostly ignored by viewer devs, but Beq and Rye :)
Luna Lunaria: cool
lifted pixel: are there any other recent 'new' features in opensim?
Nara Nook: DO you have to update OS software to see that change?
Ubit Umarov: well that is on opensim 0.9.2 Dev, some of it on 0.9.2.1 release - here are are ofc on my very last bugs, error features
Kashi Takeshi: I also upgraded last month.. needed the Gatekeeper alias ;)
Luna Lunaria: I've liked being on grids using 0.9.2. Each grid I have a region on is using 0.9.2 with the exception of Kitely
Ubit Umarov: kitely is on hybrid, they have a ton of own code. Most grids have some own code, its part of opensim "spec" to be forked, changed, etc. In fact, on older documents you can read that opensim is not even supposed to run as is :p It defines it as "a building block for some to actually make samething that works." guess only one opensim dev did think like that :p ( and that one did made a lot of code to make it actually work ... )
whirli placebo: but, the big picture, if i understand you Ubit, is that we that we need to eventually cut the cord completely because we can't rely on the closed business model of ll..because it could be bought out, or subsumed under some other corporate interest. for us to survive we must break free completely. is that a correct reading of what you are saying between the lines?
Ubit Umarov: A major issue on HG, well apart from failed avatar names, and textures.. is content creator rights, the eternal problem... still without a usable solution, but to make all things freebie
Kashi Takeshi: :)
lifted pixel: haha lol
whirli placebo: and what prevents that from being um fixed? content creator rights, specif
lifted pixel: if you can see it on your computer, you can have it if you know how and if someone really wants it
Jupiter Rowland: Maybe it's difficult enough already to make creators known on each grid. I sometimes have to travel around half the hypergrid just to try and find out who made an item.
Nara Nook: That is pretty much true across the Internet, not just Opensim. I find my books pirated around the world.
Ubit Umarov: guess major reason why SL gave up it, long long ago
Thirza Ember: who agrees with me that Ubit is an amazing person - to do so much work, and put up with all of us annoying people????
Kashi Takeshi: Smiles, agree Thirza.. Thank you for the great work !
lifted pixel: lol all of the people that work on opensim are gods
Ubit Umarov: (btw i have a paypal thing up there, if you like to help a bit ;) )
Beth Ghostraven: an online Marketplace would *really* make OpenSim more usable, especially for educators
whirli placebo: aww...yes...thats a great point, Beth
lifted pixel: like this is one of the most important internet platforms, opensim/sl/libopenmetaverse. its accessable and modable for more accessibility
Thirza Ember: The problem with a marketplace is that it stops you exploring
whirli placebo: it can be used as an adjunct to exploring too though
lifted pixel: and y'all don't get paid 1 out of ever 10L spent on the market place
Thirza Ember: yes Jess
Beth Ghostraven: yes, I like to do both - but when I need something fast, I don't have time to search the worlds for it
Thirza Ember: finding what you need can take hours
Beth Ghostraven: DAYS
whirli placebo: months
Thirza Ember: regardless of money/not money, some sort of register of content would be handy - like opensimworld, but just of shops listing types of content
lifted pixel: i was just about to mention opensimworld
Luna Lunaria: I sell through both local grid stores and on the Kitely Market. I find people actually like to 'see and touch' things I make
lite house: A user with a server could request content sent to the server and keep it on Hf so that didnt work
Ubit Umarov: also solutions that need storage on several places will not work also
Jupiter Rowland: Luna, I for one don't even like to get free buildings in boxes that I can't walk into.
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| Ubit's windmill |
Thirza Ember: how much better is Opensim experience now, than when you each started in opensim
Luna Lunaria: oh my far superior
Ubit Umarov: well i do hope it is better now :)
lifted pixel: stability wise it's a lot better, i think it's a lot easier than before too, several ezpz options, and since regions aren't packed to the gills with prims/tris it always runs well
whirli placebo: i haven't noticed a change...it doesn't work so good for me in doing most things...but i'm just an end user.
Ubit Umarov: every software has.. a open source one even more, and some problems are even outside opensim, like mono related issues on linux etc
Nara Nook: Hypergrid used to be pretty random if you'd get anywhere. Also pretty random if you would arrive with feet and hair. also Npc bugs are gone, pretty sure. Much more stable regions, could just be I learned not to make things so unstable.
lifted pixel: haha hair up your butt
Thirza Ember: right shoe firmly embedded between the cheeks
Luna Lunaria: I'm always pushing things to the max, but I haven't broken a grid in some time now
Kashi Takeshi: Wolf is happy with you :)
Jupiter Rowland: Heh, I remember how I could accidentally crash a residential sim by just building on my parcel. I hope this doesn't happen anymore...
lifted pixel: i've learned a lot about a bunch of stuff because of opensim and getting to dig in my own database and use the console
Thirza Ember: Ubit, on behalf of us all, a huge THANK YOU for your work. We know that mostly you hear complaints. But it's not what we really feel - we admire and appreciate you very much. Am I right guys? Nara.Nook: Yes, Ubit. Thanks for your hard work and for taking time to listen to our feedback.
Mal.Burns: Thanks as ever Ubit
lifted pixel: we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for this handfull of people all these regions are on your back
Ubit Umarov: report issues to our mantis - well, first report to your grid each grid runs own flavour of opensim, so it may be a issue specific to that grid. But if not, then report here http://opensimulator.org/mantis
Marlu Nic: Thanks
Lux Tergeste: I'm very grateful too, Ubit
Thirza Ember: A huge applause for the devs, past and present. Withoute you, where would we be. Back camping on Money island, in Second Life.
lifted pixel: /me tries to /clap but has no gestures enabled...
Kashi.Takeshi: Thanks for the talk and the great work Ubit
whirli placebo: this has been delightful, Ubit...thank you for sharing your insights. i really appreciated them
lifted pixel: keep making metaverse :D
Ard Rhys: Thanks Ubit. Tc
Ubit Umarov: my pleasure
Next up, AMV grid, and a complete change of pace - and a fast pace by anyone's calculation, around Mythical Realm, built by Chris McCracken. He, and grid manager Jaxson Texas, were on hand to greet us in the sky above the sim.
If you arenàt familiar with AMV or to give it its full name, Alternate Metaverse, well, you will have surely heard of grid owners, Cataplexia Numbers and Clifford Hanger.
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| Cataplexia Numbers |
Cataplexia supplied a Notecard with an epic 104 landmarks on it, an overwhelming tribute to her commitment to the grid. It's a guide to all the amenities of AMV, from shopping to art and culture, rp and partying possibilities. The place is positively charged!
But before getting more into AMV, a word about the issue mentioned above, the dreaded 'embedded LM' problem.
A Landmark is an asset. You can make a LM and pass it from grid A to grid B. You can pass a Notecard from grid A to Grid B, and it will be readable. However, if you make a LM on Grid A and embed it in a notecard, and then send that notecard to me on grid B, the Landmark will not work. I can't click on it and TP, and I can't copy it to inventory.
That's because the LM in this case is an embedded asset in the Notecard, and as such has not travelled to grid B's asset server - grid B doesn't know what you're talking about.
However, don't toss that Notecard! if I leave grid B and join you on grid A, then the LMs embedded on the Notecard will start to work again, because Grid A has those LMs in its asset server.
There is a workaround to the problem - send both the Notecard with the embedded LM, and the Landmark as a separate item. That way you're covered. That's why when you click on the LMs box at the Safari Clubhouse, you get a Pack, consisting of the week's LMs, numbered according to the order in which we're going to use them, and also a Notecard, with the LMs embedded in it, and also the addresses written out in longhand, for use in your map. Plus one or two typos, just to keep you guessing.
Still, how nice would it be if embedded LMs worked on the HG. Just saying.
Meanwhile, we were in Hell. Not HG Hell, something far more roomy and atmospheric.
Chris McCracken: this is the welcome area of mythical realms a rp medieval fantasy style
Beth Ghostraven: we're all going to hell--where's my handbasket?
Jupiter Rowland: They've got the Holy Grail here...
Jaxson Texas: please, look around, i guess were all going to hell lol
Chris McCracken: yes part of the rp was included hell and heaven which will play a part in the over all rp here
Jaxson Texas: until hell freezes over lol
whirli placebo: well...what inspired the creation of Hell for you?
Chris McCracken: here we have a floor which will have a club as well
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| Chris McCracken in heaven |
Jupiter Rowland: Although it's still pretty warm here. Shouldn't have worn a turtleneck...
Chris McCracken: yes on to the spectral realm when ready - through this gate there is a path, careful don't fall in the lava
lite house: Looks great here... My shoes melting
whirli placebo: so what happens in a spectral realm?
Chris.McCracken: so this area was designed to be underground and part of hell this is the spectral realm of ghosts and spirits
whirli placebo: so they hang out here waiting for an adventure?
Chris McCracken: there will be many races and classes, including undead. I put in tp points to each location that will tie it all in one
thirza ember: Chris do you follow a script for the RP? if so what is it
Chris McCracken: well no yet it will be open to those that want to write their own stories as well, within the fantasy theme
thirza ember: what - so, we can't torture devs here? bad luck for Ubit then
Clifford Hanger: poor ubit
Chris McCracken: if you jump in this grave, just hop in
Jaxson Texas: this way.
Spectral Grave: whispers: Traveling to - WELCOME
Beth Ghostraven: very cool way to travel
sang Beaumont: HeHe.. found a safe place to sit over
Ubit Umarov: uahhuuu she is so pretty well assuming it is a she
Chris McCracken: so this is the cemetery of the welcome area, all can come this way, outside the walls
Kashi Takeshi: Seems so.. I hope Heaven is more cheerful :)
Chris McCracken: purgatory is this way, it will get crowded, but if you bump into this statue here, the angel and the demon
Kashi.Takeshi: Looks better then hell... Hope they have good weed here
sang Beaumont: /me pats the pet
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| Clifford Hanger |
thirza ember: Chris, Jaxson, why did you choose to come to AMV grid
Chris McCracken: i came about 2 years ago and loved it
Clifford.Hanger: chris is a pioneer
Jaxson Texas: this is a family orientated grid,, thats what we are,, is family,,
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| Jaxson Texas |
Terri Bestijl: AMV is a very friendly grid and many here with Talent, reach out to help each other too!
Chris McCracken: yes is a great place
Nara.Nook: Lovely here
Lux Tergeste: huge work!
Beth Ghostraven: I love the mood here
Marlu Nic: fantastic
And then, we were off again, at breakneck speed. So much to see!
Jaxson Texas: this way
Heaven's Gate: whispers: Traveling to - HEAVEN
thirza ember: this place feels big, is it a regular region or a Var
Chris McCracken: this is a 2x2 region were on but all is in the sky right now, but will be a much larger rp when all done
thirza ember: wait - there is more than just heaven and hell?
Luna Lunaria: don't get stuck in purgatory Thirza
Chris McCracken: yes lol, you have had the quick tour.
Lux.Tergeste: There is really a lot in your notecard, Cataplexia!
Thirza Ember: how long have you been building this?
Chris McCracken: this has been work in progress for awhile, as i thought of the areas i start build
Beth Ghostraven shouts: remember to use Shared Environment lighting
Clifford.Hanger: love the way cat builds with organic stuff
Lux Tergeste: Where's the Cheshire cat? There must be one!
Chris McCracken: so we will tp to the next spot riverside art walk
lifted pixel: i'mma go eat food! see y'all next time
Ard Rhys: Thanks for a great tour but time for me to head out now, Good night all
Beth.Ghostraven: tc Ard Rhys, I need to head out too, thank you for the tour, fabulous places! /me curtseys and poofs
Kashi Takeshi: Same here.. thanks for the nice tour. Wish you all a nice time and be safe
Terri Bestijl: come back you now have the landmarks
Kashi Takeshi: I will.. great place
Luna Lunaria: I'll have to come back and spend some time. Need to run for now
Chris McCracken: feel free to come later on and explore more
Marlu Nic: all so wonderful!
Chris McCracken: but next on tour will go to the unicorn dreaming pond
Nara Nook: Night. It was lovely.
ARCANQUEST FRANK: vi saluto grazie e buon proseguimento ciaoo :)
Addresses:
Ubit's region hg.osgrid.org:80:Ubittest
Chris McCracken's rp region alternatemetaverse.com:8002:Mythical Realms NE
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